tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 17, 2011 2:00am-3:00am EDT
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anderson? yeah, isha, extraordinary situation both in libya and bahrain which we will be covering in our next hour, which we are live for. i want to show you another video that we will show you from bahrain. we will not show you the most graphic part of it but an gun that fires rubber bullets, but it's hard to tell what has happened to this person. we'll have the full video of that ahead. all the latest from bahrain and libya and leading off the broadcast the latest on the nuclear catastrophe, the nuclear situation happening right now in real time north of here. we'll be right back.
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we're live here from tokyo covering the nuclear catastrophe that is occurring. the latest information we have earlier about an hour and a half to two hours ago or throughout this morning, four helicopters over time attempting to bring and drop water on nuclear reactors in an effort to cool. a helicopter spraying water on the fukushima daiichi plant. the choppers were flown by the japanese military. only one of the missions was able to successfully drop water at all.
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four operations taking place, but only one successful. those operations have been suspended. also word, 11 water cannon struck also be on site, manned by japanese forces. could be crucial. a government official saying the last hour, the pressure is rising in reactor number five. that's one of the reactors we haven't been focused too much on. also, reactor number four, that came from an american, not a japanese official. we also have astonishing new images tonight, new pictures showing what appears to be heavy damage to several of the reactors. we'll tell you what could be going on. it's just one of two disasters unfolding here. this is kesanuma, take a look at this, block after block.
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>> the damage is just extraordinary in some of these areas. what we've noticed in talking to people here in tokyo is a growing confidence gap in terms of -- between what the government is saying and what is actually happening. we talked to a number of people here, all of whom said they don't believe what japanese officials have been publicly stating to them about the situation. the united states has now come forward to -- the united states has come forward today saying that the area around the plant, that americans should not be within 50 miles of this nuclear plant. that is very different than what the japanese government has been saying over the last several days. they had put out a 12-mile evacuate zone around this plant. there was an additional ten kilometer zone which they said people should stay indoors and not have any ventilation going on in their homes. but now the u.s. government
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coming out today saying there should be a bigger zone, 50 miles for american citizens they were talking about, and also they were saying that the emergency secretary saying that the information that they have been receiving from -- that they have not been receiving enough information in a timely way about what is actually going on, that they don't have a clear enough picture of what is going on, on the ground. it seems that the information that the japanese government is using comes from this private company, which is running the operation, running the plant. i want to talk to the spokesman for japan's prime minister. he joins us now. i appreciate you being with us. what is in charge of this operation? >> well, we established a joint headquarters between the government and tokyo electric power company. >> what does that mean? where are you getting -- where are you getting your
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information? do you have officials on site? >> yes, we do. we have officials on site, as well as we have officials based in the headquarters of tokyo electric power company. >> but your information, it is coming from the power company itself, correct? in terms of what is actually occurring in this plant? >> that's right. but we are now together in terms of getting the information out at the same time. so the lag of information being provided from the company to the government has been to nil at this point in time. >> but you only established this, i believe, what, yesterday? >> well, we established the headquarters the day before yesterday, and of course, we have been closely working together.
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but we took an unprecedented step to locate our headquarters inside tepco, the private company and government officials are stationed there. >> it seems like the information that the united states government has, that they said today in testimony before congress saying that spent fuel rods are completely exposed in one of the reactors and that there is no water covering them, that information has not been stated by the japanese government. why is that? >> well, it's a bit difficult for me to explain the perspective of the u.s. official. but let me just tell you that two hours ago, there was a telephone conversation between president obama and prime minister kan. and they discussed further cooperation. president obama extended his
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willingness to dispatch a larger number of nuclear experts, as well as reconstruction assistance, and the prime minister really appreciated it. >> well, i'm glad he appreciated it, but my question is, if there is no water covering spent fuel rods in one of the reactors, why are people in tokyo only hearing that from u.s. officials, why aren't they hearing that from you? why can you not comment on that? >> actually, at this juncture, it is very difficult to make a judgment about the level of water. i don't think anybody can definitively talk about the level of water, and we are actually carrying out massive operations in terms of dropping water by self-defense forces and bringing in the ground police chopper to spray water through a cannon truck.
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>> many people i've talked to here in tokyo frankly don't believe the statements that japanese officials are saying. they feel that the statements have been very vague, often contradictory, and that information in the early days turned out to just not be true. >> well, we are doing our best to provide the information by having the press conferences, even during early in the morning at 4:00 or 5:00 or late at night at 1:00 a.m. or 2:00 a.m. and we are trying our best to provide information to the public, and we know that this is very important in terms of the accountability of the government. >> right. but those press conferences, we've watched them, we've monitored them. and often the information is vague.
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yesterday at the press conference, it was made the announcement that workers have left the plant and we'll have more information on that later. there was no information how many workers left the plant, had all the workers left the plant, exactly what that meant. it does not seem that information is being communicated in a way that gives people confidence. >> well, we are trying to provide the information as much as possible. but please do understand that there are some issues which take some time to analyze. but we will try to redouble our efforts to provide such information. >> well, i appreciate your time. thank you. obviously there's an extraordinary situation, unprecedented situation. thank you for taking the time to speak with us. when we come back, we'll talk to dr. sanjay gupta and jim walsh all ahead. we'll be right back.
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more on the breaking news situation. helicopter crews earlier today attempting to pour water on some of these spent fuel rods, fuel pods, unsuccessfully. it seems like only one helicopter was able to drop water. those helicopters manned by military personnel, japanese military personnel are also enroute with 11 water cannons to try to douse these rods with water from the ground. they feel that would be more effective. they've only had a few water cannons, they had two given by the military previous to this. it's not clear how many they've had other than that, or why they're just now sending in 11 water cannons. it is a very fluid situation on the ground. from america today, from america's top nuclear regulator, we heard that the situation could be a lot more dire than japanese authorities are saying. given that assessment, the workers on the premises at that plant, some 180 workers now being rotated through, those workers could be in even more
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jeopardy than first thought. dr. sanjay gupta joins me with michael freelander, a former senior plant operator at three different nuclear plants and jim walsh, also from m.i.t. mr. freelander, in terms of this disaster, what are you watching most closely? what gives you the most concern right now? >> as you said, anderson, there's really two priorities for the station operators at this point. it's absolutely essential that the reactor cores remain covered with water, so doing whatever is necessary to make sure that continues. and making sure that the spent fuel pool is filled with water. those two elements are the number one priority. the number two priority is restoring electrical power as soon as possible. once that happens, they will have available all of the systems they would normally have available.
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>> they've said that they're trying to restore power to these facilities with a new electrical line and will try to do that today, though it's not clear how immediate the impact would be. jim, what are you watching most closely, as well? >> just exactly what was just said. i was hopeful when they said they were getting power in there. as soon as they get power in there, they may run into other problems because of the damage from the hydrogen blasts. so i think that's a step in the right direction, but that's no guaranty. but let me back up for a second, anderson. you just had an extraordinary interview with a japanese government spokesman, which essentially was a microcosm of what we're going through right now. you asked him about the fact that the top nuclear official in the united states has said that things are worse than the government is saying, the japanese government. you asked him one time, and his response was, well, obama and the prime minister had a phone
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call today. he completely ducked it. then you asked him a second time and he said, well, people disagree about how much water there is. that, in essence, demonstrates the nature of the communication problem is. if i'm living in tokyo, the media certainly is carrying the story that the head of the u.s. nuclear regulatory commission has said that things are worse than i'm being told and you're going to read that and think to yourself, what is going on here? it goes to the heart of the credibility problem that they are facing, and we saw it play out right now not 15 seconds ago. >> it's interesting when you're on the ground, you always think somebody is in charge, somebody has their hands around this. or that's the hope at least. but you talked to people here in tokyo and there's a growing sense that they're not sure who is in charge. >> that's absolutely right. from a reporter's stand point, we're used to being able to go to the places and see for
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ourselves. make sure that we can actually validate and verify information. this is a very unusual storey because there is that huge evacuation zone around these plants. so how much do you trust these officials? i still can't get my arms around the fact that basic mistakes have been made here in terms of human health. a thousandfold difference in terms of these readings. this is coming from nuclear engineers. they said the highest reading was 400 millisieverts. the next day they said we meant 400 microsieverts, which is a thousandfold difference. you want it to be a lower number, but how do you know what to believe? >> mr. freelander, the japanese government has raised the legal limit of radiation that workers can be exposed to, which is a
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sign of desperation to raise the legal limit far beyond what it would be in the united states or anywhere else. you've run plants. explain to us the courage and what conditions must be like for it was 50 and now we're told it's 180 personnel who are on the ground there trying to save us all, trying to save everybody in that area. >> yeah, it's impossible to overstate the difficulties that these people are encountering on a minute to minute, hour to hour basis. they have been without power almost seven days. imagine how these buildings are cavernous. there's stairwells that by now the emergency lighting is out. they're wearing a full set of protective clothing, probably has a full face respirator with air packs, as well.
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and probably by now, out of the main control room has been rendered all but useless. so any of the most minor plant evolutions that need to be done are occurring by dispatching operators into the plant, by using radios to coordinate action and even under the best of circumstances, this would be an extraordinarily difficult environment. the potential for more hydrogen explosions and steam releases, very, very, very aggressive radiological and industrial safety conditions, really these people, we can't overstate what they're overcoming to keep us all safe, as you suggested. >> tepco, which is now giving a press conference, says, and i just received this information, that there is water in reactor number four. they did not say how much water.
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excuse me, in the fuel pond, they did not say how much water nor did they say whether or not the pods were exposed. what do you make of that, jim? >> well, i think actions speak louder than words. so if we're at the point now where we have helicopters who are throwing water at both -- at reactor four's spent fuel pod and also number three, which the iaea has highlighted as being a second separate problem with respect to the nuclear waste being stored outside of the reactor, then if they're doing that, that means they're worried. if you're forced to the point where you have to do this, that indicates that you have a significant problem. the likelihood that you're going to make this work with helicopters seems very low to me. there's an accuracy problem. there's a water volume problem. can you get enough water, can you sustain this overtime.
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the helicopter operators, what they might be exposed to, you would never choose this as your first option. you're only doing this because things have gotten pretty bad. >> michael freelander, where does this -- what's the best case scenario how this gets resolved, or any scenario for how this gets resolved. >> yeah, as the previous guest mentioned earlier in the segment, the best case scenario is they get some sort of reliable power supply through the extended -- extensive system, the backup pumps and valves and heat exchangers, that they can cobble together at least one sustainable, reliable set of long-term core cooling. once they get the reactors in a situation where they are effectively on the feed water injection system, they are then
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in a stable condition or certainly on their way to stabilizing the situation at the plant. so as i mentioned to you, we'll be looking for power being able to be restored to the site. the immediate checks and everything that's necessary to again cobble together the set of systems and components that are going to allow them -- that would be the signal that this event is taking a turn for the better. >> we'll hope for that signal today. michael freelander, jim walsh and sanjay, as well. when we come back, we'll switch gears. remarkable developments in the situation in libya. also in bahrain. a very different situation but also one that's very important for the region and the world. i want to bring you both situations coming up. we'll talk to professor fouad ajami. we'll be right back. like instant discounts,bies
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welcome back to our continuing coverage from tokyo. we obviously are going to continue to cover the nuclear situation. we're monitoring a press conference and will bring you the latest developments. we don't want to forget what is happening in libya and the emergency situation in bahrain. i want to show you some of the latest pictures. we'll talk to dr. fouad ajami in a moment. in bahrain, graphic video of a protester being shot at point blank range, likely with a rubber bullet. we do not know what happened to this man. that video from youtube. a situation in bahrain is very fast moving. doctors in hospitals in bahrain have said that authorities have taken over the hospital, have
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beat doctors. but, again, the situation is very fluid on the ground. in libya also now, gadhafi forces have been on the move over the last several days. in benghazi, they are reinforcing the city. four "new york times" reporters are missing right now in libya. the libyan government says it has no information on them. the u.n. security council has not reached any consensus on a resolution for a no-fly zone. seven hours of negotiations today. more talks tomorrow. air strikes being discussed as well as a no-fly zone. libya's deputy ambassador says gadhafi has lost his mind. he used the word "genocide." >> we think that in the future, in the coming hours we will see a real genocide if the international community does not move quickly and prevent him attacking with a large force.
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>> battles under way. we understand for the city of misurata and also ajdabiya. arwan damon is in benghazi, nic robertson is in tripoli and fouad ajami is in washington. let's talk about libya first. arwa damon in benghazi, what are they doing? are they expecting a full-on assault of benghazi? because saif gadhafi has said that this military operation will be over within 48 hours. >> reporter: anderson, it seems as if they're at least bracing themselves for that. we have been asking military officials here about what sort of plan they might have. they're not disclosing details. they do keep assuring a plan is in place. we have not saw anything that would appear like a massive buildup.
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we have been seeing these ongoing demonstrations in front of the courthouse, however. a group of women earlier today walking by, carrying a sign with a simple message on it, anderson. it said, how many libyans need to die until the u.n., the united nations makes a decision that it is going to make some sort of a decision? we keep hearing that, anderson. people wanting to know how if the international community is seeing the images coming out of libya that they haven't made a decision. >> how confident is the gadhafi regime? i saw a sort of pep rally for moammar gadhafi. how confident are they right now? >> reporter: anderson, we traveled 600 miles today to get
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to the outskirts where the government forces are lined up. this is the most massive display of military force of moammar gadhafi's army we've seen since we've been here. multiple rocket launchers, multiple tanks, artillery pieces, radar control, weapons systems, multiple soldiers, hundreds, possibly several thousand. multiple dozens upon dozens of large, heavy trucks, full of ammunition, ammunition for ak-47 to large tanks. the soldiers feel confident. the government feels confident. there was a real anticipation in the air of those soldiers on the outskirts today. there were other government troops skirmishing with rebels we were being told. but the troops told us they've had ten days of games. they feel very confident. they say the only thing that's holding them up is that the rebels inside the city are in civilian buildings and they say, and we have no way of independently confirming this,
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they say that's going to make it harder for them to fight, particularly with those heavy weapons that they have. we talked to soldiers in other battles here who told us they've lost soldiers because they resisted firing too much on civilians. these are things we can't confirm. but we're seeing pictures of injured civilians here and on our way to that battle today, we passed through many towns the government has taken and very few of them showed a lot of physical damage, anderson. >> to hear gadhafi regime talking about being concerned about civilians, i think it's going to strike a lot of people as hard to believe, frankly, when we've heard from other reporters who were in zawiya who said a massacre took place, civilians being killed. we've seen videos of police security forces, gadhafi security forces firing on unarmed protesters.
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professor fouad ajami is with us. do you buy that the libyians are holding back the attacks because they're worried about civilian casualties? >> not at all. they will do it when they want to do it. remember, this new libya now based in benghazi and battling for its life began on february 17. it has a name. it's the february 17 revolution. we are now here on the night of march 17. a month later, the world has changed. i believe that this revolution, this fight between moammar gadhafi and the free libyans, if you will, has had a kind of tipping point. the forces of revolution and the forces of change had a real chance from february 17 until about two weeks later. two weeks later, the entire landscape changed and these people were always waiting for rescue and for the cavalry to
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come from the united nations, from the united states. no cavalry came. all options are on the table, we should never allow any spokesman from washington to say all options are on the table. so we see the inevitable. we see the advantage of gadhafi's gunships, gadhafi's air power, gadhafi's money and the disparity of power is there for all to see. >> and of course, so much of the media and the world, and i include myself in on this, paying attention to the situation here in japan and for understandable reasons. still, that doesn't -- it's the best thing frankly that could have happened to moammar gadhafi with this earthquake and nuclear situation because he's not being watched as closely as he was. not that we were able to do much about it. it does seem to be also a turning point, professor, in
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bahrain where now you have saudi troops who have been brought into suppress the population. they say they are not directly involved in activities with protesters. we have this remarkable video of a man being shot point blank by what looks like a rubber bullet. but what's going on in bahrain as you see it? >> this was always built for a rainy day such as this. but to be honest, we've done this big middle east story together for many, many days, for the last month or so. and i'm not that worried about bahrain. i don't think in bahrain you can just kill indiscriminately. the saudis can't do it. in bahrain, the game will be fought in a limited way. we must return to the killing fields of libya and wonder the moral scandal of what we have allowed gadhafi to do.
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we always had an excuse and waiting for deliverance. and we kept telling lies, if you will. we kept saying we will do this in libya, but the arabs have to give their green light for a no-fly zone. they gave the green light for the no-fly zone and we upped the ante. we changed the bar and said the arabs have to participate in the enforcement of a no-fly zone. and i think the confusion morally and strategically in washington and the unwillingness of washington to come to the rescue of these people puts on cruel display the dilemma of the libyans as they fight and die alone. >> well, and we continue to watch. professor ajami, i appreciate it. arwa damon in benghazi, please stay safe. nic robertson, as well. we'll check in with you tomorrow. our coverage continues. we'll be right back.
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welcome back to our continuing coverage of the situation here in japan. we're obviously monitoring the nuclear situation very closely. the latest information that we have, as i said before, they attempted four drops of water via helicopter over the course of this morning. four separate drops. only one of those drops was apparently successful. they say they're focusing on reactor number three right now. they were able to drop one load. 7 1/2 tons fits in one of those vessels that they open up over the site. then they called off those operations a and they're trying to bring in 11 water cannons manned by japanese soldiers, by members of the japanese defense force.
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again, we're trying to bring you updated information minute by minute. and i want to focus on what's happening north of the fukushima daiichi plant. the efforts to help those who have survived the tsunami and the earthquake. u.s. search and rescue teams assisting. the death toll has risen to 4,314. at least 8,606 people are still missing. more than 2,000 injured. time running out for anyone who may have survived and may be underneath the wreckage. with this debris, it's not like in haiti where you have an earthquake and buildings collapsed and you could tell where people were going to be. with the tsunami, it's not the earthquake damage necessarily that killed most people. it's the water.
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so you have this fast-moving water, which would have swept people away and then there's all this debris, cars and homes and houses and wood and steel in this water. and they may have been deposited miles away from where they lived or where they were swept away. so you have these debris fields, which are just huge, 10, 15 feet thick in some places with all manner of debris, and in order to find out, find who may still be inside, more than likely dead, even to recover their bodies you would need heavy equipment to move that debris and in a lot of these places they haven't been searched yet. they don't have equipment to search in the way like a u.s. search and rescue team has a lot of the searches are members of the japanese defense forces. they deployed 100,000 of them. they're walking around with sticks that in many cases don't even have cadaver dogs to find people. so no doubt the death toll will rise.
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once you're in the debris field. you get a sense of how difficult this search really is. i want to go to our brian todd, who is up north with a u.s. search and rescue team from fairfax county, virginia. also from los angeles. here's what he saw. >> reporter: we're in northeastern japan. got here this afternoon to find this scene here. pretty much tells the story. complete devastation in this neighborhood. they have to comb through all this rubble. and the houses clearly have been displaced, knocked into each other. there's a house that was knocked over and possibly into that other one over there as these guys try to enter that house. you can see them over there. they're working against every conceivable obstacle over here. tons of mud, debris all over the place. you've got downed power lines and the weather obviously has turned very, very bad and risky for these crews.
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>> there's a lot of complications added by the snow. the slip and fall hazards are there. the snow does hide things and makes a lot of the ground look identical and makes it harder what may be a pit on an entrance to a cellar. so we have to be much more direct on that. >> reporter: it's worth it to pick through every inch and go through the downed power lines over all the objects into the spaces, because the stakes are enormous and there is opportunity. there are voids everywhere you look. under this house, spaces where people could be sheltering, waiting for these guys to arrive. under here, everywhere you look, a possibility for rescue. these guys have almost no room to operate as they try to get into this house that's been turned on its side. look at this. they have nails around, all kinds of sharp objects. here's a guy coming out.
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what's incredible is even with no sign of life, people keep coming back. there's a couple picking their way through this rubble that you can barely walk through, trying to find something that maybe they can take back. late in the day, the hope of finding someone alive gave way to desperate reality. a body was found in this house. so this area devastated by the tsunami. no survivors found here in the wreckage. so we move on to the next area. >> brian todd joins us now. brian, i've worked with these crews from fairfax county, and also from los angeles. the men and women, they're so dedicated, they're at great risk to themselves. it's difficult working. have they been able to find anyone alive at this point or because it's such a different situation with these debris fields from the water, are they
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basically just looking to recover bodies? >> anderson, they have not been able to find anyone alive so far, but they are still treating this as a rescue operation. they are determined to try to find anyone who could still be alive. that could change, of course, very soon. it could change any minute, because you talked about all the obstacles here. the force of the water just wiping everything away for miles. they're under no illusions they're going to find a lot of people alive. they have found a lot of bodies already. this town we're in right now, near that town where we just were, was completely wiped out in seconds. i was over here to my left a few feet, and a railroad track was knocked off its moorings by the force of the water here. the tsunami warning siren was knocked out in the earthquake. then the fire department came
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down the streets and blared in a loud speaker to get to higher ground. there's no word on how many did. this particular town has been completely leveled. >> i'm told gary tuchman is joining us. gary, where are you and what have you been seeing over the last 24 hours? >> reporter: anderson, i'm about 100 miles north of brian. one of the most important port cities in the country, and take a look at this. this is an incredible sight. this is a 130-foot fishing boat. it weighs 200 tons, and it's flipped over on its side and we are about 100 yards from the bay that goes into the pacific ocean. there are at least six ships of this size out of the water and dozens of other ships sunk in the water. it's totally devastated the economy in this very important port city.
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>> and in terms of search and rescue, is there anything going on in that area? i'm sorry, we lost gary -- go ahead. we just lost him again. brian todd is standing by. brian, how long do search and rescue crews going to stay for? question and that's been up and down the whole time here. they have to get permission from japanese officials to go everywhere. it's been a little constraining and frustrating to them. they're committed to being here at least another day, but they may be packing up soon. of course, this is getting to be more and more bleak, the situation here. less and less chance of finding anyone alive. this house behind me, you can see a car over my left shoulder just blown into a house here.
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very typical scene. you're just finding carnage here, no signs of life for -- and the people who survived are coming back to pick through whatever is left. >> you've got to remember you need heavy equipment in order to start to move this debris in order to start to find people. that is the reality of the situation. this is not the earthquake in haiti. this is not just an earthquake where buildings have collapsed and you know where to look. this is a mass movement of debris, of homes and cars and everything on a street crush together in fields that just go on as far as the eye can see. it's an extraordinary thing to witness and you get a sense of the power of the water and the difficulty of the search for those rescue teams. brian todd, appreciate it, gary tuchman as well. our coverage continues. we'll be right back.
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he killed two pakistani men back in january after he said they attacked him. the incident has strained u.s.-pakistani relations. today, davis was pardoned by the families of the victims and the families received compensation. it's not known who paid the money. boxing great muhammad ali has made a personal plea as a "brother of islam" to iran's government. he's asking for the release of two jailed american hikers accused of spying. he wrote a letter to iran's supreme leader asking him to show compassion to the young men. the way he did with their friend sarah shourd who returned to the u.s. last fall. the disaster in japan unnerved investors on wall street today. the dow tumbled 242 points, 2% of its value. the nasdaq and the s&p have now erased all their gains for the year. and prince william is in new zealand for a two-day visit. he's in christchurch and will
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meet with the people affected by last month's earthquake. >> isha, thank you very much. we'll have an update on the nuclear situation in just a moment. we'll be right back. like this one. and this one. and oops, my bad. so, they give expedia ginormous discounts with these: unpublished rates. which means i get an even more rockin' hotel, for less. my brain didn't even break a sweat. where you book matters. expedia.
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i just want to give you a quick update on the latest information of what we understand is happening at the nuclear plants. water cannons are now in position according to the company which is in control of these plants. they are now in position at the plant. japanese government says the main problem is now reactor number three. that's what the chopper water drop today focused
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